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Good points!!
Yes I suppose just because Fitz doesn't have any evidence of his mother trying to contact him doesn't by any means show that she didn't! He would have had very little knowledge of what was going on around him (and things specifically kept from him) especially when a young boy.
(I always fall into the trap of thinking of the narrator being some all knowing being rather than someone who is very much a character IN the story with a limited knowledge and his own biases!)
(Jun-06-2010, 01:35 AM (UTC))RZ Wrote: [ -> ]She did know that he was taken to Moonseye at least, as she was there pleading with her father whilst he held Fitz's hand before the gate. He throws some snow and ice at her, if I recall correctly, to keep her back?

Yes, you're right, RZ. It was from this scene, as well as the incident in Buckkeep Town, that it became obvious it wasn't his mother's choice that Fitz be handed over to Chivalry/taken from her. I think this was later backed up by Kettle in AQ, and even earlier by someone from the Mountain Kingdom who had known his mother. *straining brain powers, trying to remember this latter point!*

(Jun-06-2010, 01:35 AM (UTC))RZ Wrote: [ -> ]As for why she never tried to seek him out... Personally, I'm not so sure that she didn't try. She made her appearance in Buck those few years later, and I suspect it was because she'd eventually tracked him down. But by then, Shrewd had claimed him and decided to train him as an assassin... I almost wonder if perhaps he chose not to return him to his mother? The way he sees Fitz as a tool and a weapon, I can easily see Shrewd deciding not to let him go. So, maybe she stayed in Buck hoping to perhaps catch him the way she did... but it was bad luck that Fitz didn't recognise her? There's no evidence of any of that, but it's still something I've considered!

Good one, RZ! Of course I knew that Shrewd would want to keep Fitz by his side, for all of the reasons you mentioned, but it had never occurred to me that he may actively keep Fitz separated from his mother once he had been bound to the Farseers. Not only would he not want to let Fitz go, but maybe he took it even further than doubt it was one of the first jobs Shrewd gave to Chade when he heard word of Fitz's out and identify the mother so she could be watched over, or even disposed of, if necessary?
An afterthought Smiling ...

No doubt Fitz's mother worried over and fretted for him (he had, after all, been in her care for six years!) but I can picture her being particularly concerned for him once she'd heard that Chivalry had abdicated and had then been killed.
Again, this has nothing to do with Moonseye but does flow on from the rest of our conversation...sort of!

I have not long re-read a section of Fool's Fate where Nettle assists Fitz in Thick's dream, so as to manage his sea sickness. To set the scene, they had to begin from Nettle's dream, make their way through the fog and brambles of Fitz's dream and then move into Thick's where he saw himself as a drowning kitten.

'What is this?' Nettle exclaimed in annoyance. Then, as the fog stole her from my sight, she exclaimed, "Stop it. Shadow Wolf, stop it right now! This is all yours; you made this mess. Let go of it!'
And she wrested my dream from me. It was rather like having someone snatch away your blankets. But most jarring for me was that it evoked a memory I both did and did not recognise: another time and an older woman, prying something fascinating and shiny from my chubby-fisted grasp, while saying, 'No, Keppet. Not for little boys.'

Obviously this is a memory of his mother (or maybe even his grandmother) that he has possibly subconciously squelched beneath the fog and brambles of his dreams, particularly as these are both common aspects of many dreams that Fitz has that Nettle visits. If this is the case, it explains how he has blocked out all memories of his past life, and therefore does not recognise his mother, grandmother or grandfather during later confrontations/years?
I think it's his grandmother - Fitz describes his mother's voice as "young" in the first chapter of AA, and it also fits with the scene in the market place in RA where an older woman tries to control a younger one (shouting "Keppet") from reaching Fitz.
(Aug-09-2010, 04:06 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: [ -> ]another time and an older woman, prying something fascinating and shiny from my chubby-fisted grasp, while saying, 'No, Keppet. Not for little boys.'

Yes, with the inclusion of 'older' in the above passage, I am inclined to agree, mervi. not sure where to put this as it carries on from discussions held in the Mythical Creatures/Folk thread but it IS about Moonseye Undecided ...and I think Moonseye is a key location for more reasons than we already have been made aware (though you can't ask me to justify WHY I think's just a hunch!).

At the very beginning of AA, when Fitz is first taken to Moonseye, he notes the doors of the fortified building that is the base for the Buck guards. He says, "The doors were tall, not just to a six-year-old boy, but tall enough to admit giants, to dwarf even the rangy old man who towered over me. And they looked strange to me, although I cannot summon up what type of door or dwelling would have looked familiar."

Given that Fitz has talked about giants as being part of Six Duchies folklore (I have noted this passage down in the Mythical Creatures/Folks thread), and knowing that Moonseye is at the foot of Mountain Kingdom land (possibly north of which is where I think we will soon discover resides, or once did reside, giants of some kind), would it be too much of a stretch to wonder if these doors were made to accomodate literal giants (as could be hinted at in this passage)? I doubt that they would accommodate dragons, as they don't sound anywhere near as immense as the doors that Fitz saw in Kelsingra?

Giants will be somewhere in the future plot (I know it!), and possibly even had a role in the cataclysm, so I am looking for 'giant' clues!!
I just re-read that bit where Fitz encounters the old man at Moonseye and somehow I remember this thread!
My impression from reading the scene is that it isn't Fitz's grandfather. To me, he just didn't react as I would expect his grandfather to react. No matter how much he resented Chivalry getting his daughter pregnant, surely he wouldn't hate the child that much? It's not his fault?
The old man seemed mainly just uncaring of Fitz..... and possibly disgusted by Fitz being the 'Wit Bastard' or whatever they called him.
I guess it's possible, but it just didn't feel right to me that it was meant to be him.
I certainly got that the guy didn't think much of Chivalry. I think that might have been because of something mentioned later - that Chivalry was the one that stopped the Moonseye guards taking bribes off the smugglers. The guy seems to resent Chivalry's strict ways with the men, when it turned out he wasn't so perfect himself.
There's no proof that's why he doesn't like Chivalry, but I think it would be one plausible reason (and it's mentioned around the same time in the book, so that I noticed it).

(Apr-01-2010, 06:27 AM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: [ -> ]****SORRY, SPOILERS FROM THE TAWNY MAN BOOKS ALSO!!!*****
In AA, and a few other places, Fitz outlines the events leading up to his grandfather leaving him at the military outpost at Moonseye. It was from here that Fitz begins his memories. He says, "Before that, there is nothing,...Prior to that day at Moonseye, there is nothing. But on that day they suddenly begin, with a brightness and detail that overwhelms me."
So, Fitz obviously remembers his grandfather but the actual details are sketchy...he was tall and old with a huge, rough (calloused) grip that was warm and firm but not unkind.
Later in AQ, when Fitz is holed up in the jail in Moonseye (before he is freed by Nighteyes, Kettle and Starling), he is supervised by an old man who knew his identity and knew his father, Chivalry. Looking startled at Fitz when he took him a meal, the old man said, "You've your father's voice as well as his eyes."
Could this old man have actually been Fitz's grandfather?
Points in favour of this theory could include that the old man seemed to have a particular, personal dislike for Chivalry. In reply to Fitz saying that he had never known Chivalry, the old man said," Count your blessings, then. Knowing the prince was not the same as liking him. Stiff as a stick he was. Rules and orders for us, while he was out making bastards. Yes, I knew your father. I knew him too well for my comfort." From this, I believe that his anger stems from the fact that it was HIS daughter, Fitz's mother, who Chivalry was seems more of a personal anger than that which would normally be directed?

Another point is that, while it does say at times (particularly in FF when he is given back his memories by the Fool) that his family lived on farming land and were farmers, it also does say that Fitz's grandfather was a Buckkeep guard who had been stationed at Mooneye prior to marrying a mountain woman.

The only point I can see that the old man may NOT have been his grandfather is that Fitz seemed to remember him well from when he was six and taken to Moonseye in AA and so, surely, would have remembered the old man again in AQ. Or, could it have been that Fitz simply no longer remembered, much as what happened when he couldn't recall the name 'Keppet' or either of the two mountain women (his mother and obviously his grandmother) who fought together in the markets at Buckkeep Town?

Fitz's grandfather or not? What do you think? To me, it seems a sneaky little thing that RH would slip in with little else for us to go on!!
Hmm, yes, I see what you mean, Nuytsia. I will have to keep a look out for all of this when I finally get to it during my re-read.

(Aug-09-2010, 04:06 PM (UTC))Farseer Wrote: [ -> ]But most jarring for me was that it evoked a memory I both did and did not recognise: another time and an older woman, prying something fascinating and shiny from my chubby-fisted grasp, while saying, 'No, Keppet. Not for little boys.'

I'm quoting this passage again but for a different reason this time...the "fascinating and shiny" object makes me wonder...related to something (the Skill?) perhaps, or just something everyday?
Most likely a knife or such.
Yes, maybe it preluded to his coming life of bringing death to people...! Nah! P

I was reading through a passage in RA about Kettricken, when she went down to Buckkeep alone and this then prompted the forming of her Queen's Guard. Within the passage, it mentioned something of 'dutiful' and it is only in re-reads like that, that I think we can fully appreciate the sneakiness of our Tangle Leader. I highly doubt that the majority are accidental word uses...she knows exactly what she's doing and where she's leading us!! She puts so many teensy hints throughout the text that I can't help but jump on everything! Angel
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